Mark Driscoll is Speaking at Hillsong

By now you will probably be aware that Hillsong misled everyone about Mark Driscoll contributing to their conference, after they played a pre-recorded interview with Mark and Grace Driscoll at their Australia conference. In response to this, I am organising a protest at their Europe conference taking place at the O2 next week.

I’ve had a few lovely emails from people sharing their appreciation for the protest and petition that I started a few months ago, including from people directly impacted by Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll’s damaging leadership. I’ve also had a couple of emails challenging me for protesting against a fellow Christian. A while ago Premier asked me to write why I thought creating a petition was a Christian thing to do, with Carl Beech offering an opposing view. You can read it HERE.

I thought it might be helpful to post anonymised versions of the email conversations. Hopefully then if I get any other emails, I can just direct them here, and also to offer my perspective on why protesting Mark Driscoll’s continued platform opportunities is so important.

Email 1:

Their email:

I am not a Fan of Mark. I also do not understand the Petition you are signing. Pray for the guys involved, love mercy and do justice. Christians are seen as people who are always against something and always fighting. This petition serves to enforce that perception. You really disagree with what Mark and the Hillsong guys, I get that, but petition is more a political response, I think it does more damage then help. My humble option I guess. I don’t know you so would not want to judge your motives. I am just sad that this is another example of Christians who are against something, this time its other Christians.

I pray that the ultimate result for all this is Love.

My response:

Hi,

Thanks for your email.  I totally hear what you’re saying.

I am for a lot of things.  I am for Jesus’ love, justice and mercy.  I am for the many, many people Mark Driscoll has hurt.  I am for women’s equality and gender justice.

The petition resulted in Mark Driscoll not attending either Hillsong conference.  It enabled the people he has hurt to know that thousands stand with them in their pain.

We live in a digital age and therefore some of the solutions and tools we will use to bring about change are going to be social media and online petitions.  I know lots of amazing women (and men) who will never consider Jesus because their experience of Christians and the Church has been sexism, collusion with abuse or actual abuse.  For them, the petition and other methods to challenge power abuse and woman hating is a witness to a God of love and justice.  It is a witness to a Jesus who said “if a brother or sister sins, go to them. If they don’t listen, take others.  If they still don’t listen, treat them as a pagan.”

Mark Driscoll’s teaching and actions do not exclude him from God’s love and the forgiveness found in Jesus, but they do exclude him from leadership.  There are hundreds, if not thousands of people whose lives have been damaged and even destroyed by Mark Driscoll.

We are called to stand with the last, the least and the lost.  They are the ones Jesus will ask us if we have cared for when we reach eternity.

I desperately hope for a unity in the Body.  For people of one mind in Christ, but Jesus’ teaching and life shows me something radically different to that which Mark Driscoll has brought.  And I seek unity with Jesus and Jesus’ teaching above and beyond anything else.

The world doesn’t need a facade of unity from the church.  In many of Paul’s letters (which were essentially what we would now term “open letters”) he challenged those who were not in line with the Gospel. He even encouraged some to be expelled from the church.  Paul did not collude with sin, neither did Jesus.  As Christians we are called to a higher place and that is what I want to witness to the world.  Not collusion with powerful leaders.

I hope that helps make sense of my actions.  I appreciate you taking the time to contact me.  Many blessings to you,

Natalie

Their response:

 

Thank you Natalie for your very good response. I too will stand with you for those hurt. Thanks for being pro-active and putting your prayers into actions.

 

When few leaders have too much power it often ends with real damage and hurt. May God bring His healing, His kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.

 

Blessing to you.

Email 2:

Their email:

I pray that God will show you to forgive people. Everyone makes mistakes and deserves a change to explain and be heard. It’s not your place to judge. Christ died for our sins, look at your own sin in your life before pointing fingers. That sin is what Christ died for. please don’t leave anger build up inside or something you will never become completely happy inside.

My response:

 

Hi,

Thanks for your email.  I appreciate your prayers, but perhaps you could have asked me about my views on forgiveness rather than assuming that I am not a forgiving person or that I have anger building up inside me.  I do not.

I am not in a position to forgive or not forgive Mark Driscoll, he has not done anything personally to me.  He has hurt hundreds if not thousands of fellow sisters and brothers of Christ.  What he has done is not a mistake.  Over a period of years Mark Driscoll has misused church funds, unfairly sacked employees, behaved in spiritually abusive ways to many and preached messages which denigrate women.  He has used power in a way that has hurt many.

I am not advocating for anyone to not forgive Mark Driscoll.  Forgiveness is not the same as being given access to one of the biggest platforms in Western Christianity.  Forgiveness does not mean nullifying the consequences of someone’s actions.  The Bible is clear about what Christian leadership should look like, even according to Mark Driscoll’s own teaching on leadership, he has behaved in ways that prevent him leading.

He hasn’t even been away from the platform for a year and already he is re-entering that arena.  His victims are irreparably damaged.  There are many who have walked away from the church because of how badly he hurt them.  The apostle Paul makes clear that as Christians we are Jesus’ representatives, that leaders especially should be above reproach, that we should behave in ways which are in line with Jesus’ teaching.

I have walked many paths of forgiveness.  I was abused and raped for four years.  I do not hold anger towards the man who did that to me.  I have forgiven him.  I hope he changes his behaviour and no longer hurts people.  I hope to see him in heaven.  I am not someone who is struggling with unforgiveness.  I struggle with injustice.  I struggle with Christians wounding other Christians and then being welcomed onto the world stage with applause and celebration.  I struggle with a church that defiles the name of Jesus with abuse of power and collusion with abusers.

I am so grateful for Jesus, for all He has brought to my life.  I have been utterly redeemed and transformed because of Him.  That transformation, and the power of the Holy Spirit is what drives me to stand against abuse, both within and without the church.  I will weep with those who weep.  I am not driven by anger or unforgiveness, but by love for God and my neighbours, the ones Mark Driscoll has hurt.  I am driven by the desire to see the Bride of Christ, pure and white, not defiled by power abuse and collusion with abuse.

Thank you for taking the time to read my response.  We may not agree.  But that is okay.  Jesus died for both of us and Jesus loves us both, and perhaps if we don’t agree on this side of eternity, we will be able to discuss it on the other side.

Many blessings to you,

Natalie

Their response:

 

Thank you for your reply. Thanks you for your openness in Christ, there is true healing.  Forgiveness is a hard thing to overcome I find it hard to do. When Peter denied Jesus three times, it was a big thing to do. Jesus forgave and used him after to do amazing things in his life. I do not know all the story only a few things, I’m just an onlooker, to see Christians disagreeing and putting things on the net about their brothers and sisters that would turn away loads of people from their beliefs also, I think the devil is standing back having a good laugh at the situation. I am truly sorry if I offended you. I did not mean to do that in any way.

My reply:

 

Hi,

I wasn’t offended at all, and really welcome the opportunity to openly discuss differences.  I agree that it is hard when Christians are not united.

I think the devil enjoys seeing Christians misuse and abuse power.  The devil watches powerful (usually) men destroying the lives of their congregations and rubs his hands gleefully as those same men are welcomed with open arms and standing ovations onto new platforms.  We are called to “weep with those who weep” in the body of Christ, and it seems many more are interested in protecting and supporting those in power, than weeping with those who have been hurt by the powerful.

I know many who can’t even consider the church because of the ways they see power being misused. Those who have been subjected to abuse by their husbands are expected to forgive and continue to suffer. People’s lives can be ruined by charismatic leaders who have little integrity.  Churches that preach no sex before marriage while condoning rape within marriage.  If the Gospel is not good news to those who are suffering abuse, it isn’t really good news at all.

I hope and pray that by protesting, it will provide an alternative narrative about Mark Driscoll and those who are colluding with him.

Thanks for being so willing to listen to my perspective, may you have a blessed day!

Natalie

If you would like to join me in protesting, here is the information:

Mark Driscoll Protest

 

Mark Driscoll isn’t Speaking at Hillsong

Mark Driscoll is no longer speaking at the Hillsong conferences in Australia and the UK. This is a Good Thing.

I set up the petition asking for Hillsong to remove Driscoll from their conference after they confirmed he and his wife Grace were doing an interview, subsequent to his resignation from his position as a pastor, surrounded by accusations of bullying, plagiarism, spiritual abuse and misuse of funds. The pain of those who are continuing to live with the consequences of Driscoll’s choices must have grown as one of the biggest platforms and brands in Western Christianity welcomed him to the stage.

The recent media coverage has focussed on some of Driscoll’s many woman-hating comments he made over ten years ago. Although his attitudes and beliefs about women are very concerning, the direct impact of the well documented bullying and abuse perpetrated by him, towards many within his church and wider community was what led me to set up the petition.

Many people have commented on Brian Houston’s statement, and while I hope his actions in uninviting Mark Driscoll speak louder than the words in his statement, I wanted to comment on various parts of the statement, partly in response to him and partly to correct some assumptions within it.

After personal interaction with Mark Driscoll today, we have agreed that he will no longer be coming to Australia or the UK to attend Hillsong Conference. It is my hope that Mark and I will be able to speak in person in the coming weeks to discuss some of the issues that have been raised, what – if anything – he has learned, and for me to understand better how he is progressing in both his personal and professional life.

 

This part of the statement is excellent. It suggests that in conversation with Mark Driscoll, Brian Houston may have realised that Driscoll is not in the right place to offer appropriate responses about his behaviour in recent years. As Pastor James Miller wrote after hearing Mark Driscoll speak at the Thrive Conference, “Driscoll just gave a long lecture on forgiveness without asking for it.  Aside from the allusion to “not being totally innocent,” he really didn’t point out his own failings.”

It is likely Driscoll will continue with the same minimisation, denial and blame in private conversation as on the platform and it is good to know Brian Houston has taken this into consideration.

The teachings of Christ are based on love and forgiveness, and I will not write off Mark as a person simply because of the things that people have said about him, a small minority of people signing a petition or statements he has made many years ago for which he has since repeatedly apologised.

 

I agree with Brian that love and forgiveness is at the core of Jesus’ teaching. Nobody has “written Mark off” and any action that is taken has been based on well documented and extensive information about the ways Mark has behaved in bullying and damaging ways; both as a leader and as a Christian.
Ensuring that someone who has chosen to hurt many people does not have access to a platform is not writing someone off. If Mark wanted to work in a supermarket or office, aside from concerns about his bullying behaviour, I would not have set up a petition asking him not to be employed. Being given a platform of any size (especially one of the largest in the western world) is an enormous privilege and being denied access to that is an appropriate consequence for someone who has misused power in so many ways.

In the same way that taking a person with alcohol dependency to a bar might be problematic, giving someone with power issues a platform invites them to continue to misuse power.

The petition was not primarily about statements Mark made years ago, it was about his ongoing misuse of power.

The petition has been signed by 3000 people. This may be a small minority for a church which has around 30,000 people attending its Australian campuses, however some of those who signed the petition have been directly hurt by Mark Driscoll. They are not a number. They have a painful story of Mark Driscoll’s choices, they are still living with the consequences of his choices.

 

However, I do not want unnecessary distractions during our conference, particularly as this 30 minute interview was only a small part of this five day event. It was clear to me that Mark’s attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose of Hillsong Conference, which is to see people leave encouraged in their own spiritual journey.

 

Some have commented that this part of the statement is concerning. I would agree. He has shifted the focus away Mark Driscoll’s choices and lack of repentance, to talking about “unnecessary distractions”. For many, Hillsong’s brand has long been associated with the more negative elements of Christian culture, and this section of the statement will have done nothing to dissuade them of that. However, perhaps it could be seen that he is saying “interviewing Mark Driscoll is not going to encourage people in their own spiritual journey”. Which I think many would agree with.

Clearly Mark has held some views and made some statements that cannot be defended. One or two of the more outrageous things he is purported to have said, I have heard for the first time through the media exposure over the past week.

 

I think similarly to Steve Chalke’s quotes about Yoder, Brian Houston perhaps made an uninformed choice to include Mark Driscoll. But unlike Steve Chalke, Houston has had the wisdom to not collude with power misuse or hatred of women. Perhaps this situation will cause conference organisers to investigate speakers more thoroughly before inviting people onto their platform. Maybe they can also address the lack of women on the platform at the same time…

I am grateful to Hillsong and Brian Houston for their decision and hope that this will lead other conference organisers to think before inviting Driscoll onto their platform. There is much time that must pass, responsibility that must be taken and restitution that must be done before Mark Driscoll should be considered for any platform in any part of the world.

Petitioning Hillsong: Unfair or Justified?

Last week I set up a petition to ask Hillsong to remove Mark Driscoll from their platform at their Europe conference.  His contribution has been downgraded from “MAINSTAGE SPEAKER” to “Interview Guest” alongside his wife Grace.  Driscoll was on the programme for Hillsong before he resigned and his behaviour within Mars Hill and beyond had been made as public as it is now.

I did not create the petition because I’m slow to forgive.  I did not create the petition because I am “shouty and ranty” or because I’m “emotive” or because I’m not very “Christlike”.  I did it because I believe it is unjust for Mark Driscoll to be given one of the biggest Christian platforms in Europe while those he hurt are still trying to rebuild their lives.

Stories have been told of how Driscoll encouraged people to give up their jobs and lives to move and work with Mars Hill, to then fire them.  The destruction and damage caused to those families?  Horrendous.  Stories of him asking church leaders’ wives inappropriately sexual questions, of him spending church tithes on getting his book into bestseller lists, of him plagiarising other people’s work; stealing their ideas and words and calling them his own.

He has not publicly repented, no matter what Charisma News tell you…  HERE is a blog I wrote about the PR apology he offered when resigning from Mars Hill.

Mark Driscoll used power in a dangerous and damaging way.  Just as an alcoholic uses alcohol in a way that is hurtful, to their own body, to their family and to others.  Or as a workaholic uses work in a way that damages themselves and others, Mark is a “Poweraholic” (Yes, I made that word up.  You are welcome…)  It is not that leadership is wrong or inherently damaging.  But it does come with risks (like drinking).  That’s why Jesus gave us a specific model for leadership, “The leaders of the world dominate, IT SHALL NOT BE LIKE THAT AMONG YOU.” (Matthew 20:26)

It is intensely unloving to provide Mark Driscoll with a platform.  Firstly to the many, many people broken by Mark’s actions and those around him who colluded with and enabled him to continue as a poweraholic.    Secondly, to his family and friends.  Poweraholics are like alcoholics, their need to maintain and increase power damages all those around them.  Thirdly, to Mark himself.  Poweraholics are not loved and cared for by giving them more power.  Just as loving an alcoholic involves enabling them to avoid alcohol, loving a poweraholic means enabling them to avoid power.

Mark DeMoss, Hillsong’s spokesperson has responded directly to the petition, and the mention within it that it would be a form of “cheap grace” to give Driscoll their platform; “I don’t think that is ‘cheap grace,’ but rather, a thoughtful approach to challenging circumstances. I think it would be fair for the petitioners to judge this appearance after it takes place, but advance judgment seems premature and a bit unfair, in my view.”

I would suggest what is slightly more unfair is that Mark DeMoss is the same person who did the PR management for Mark Driscoll’s resignation.  So, we have the person who equipped Mark Driscoll to do his slick PR apology (referenced above) now telling us that Hillsong is right to keep Mark Driscoll on the programme.  Isn’t that interesting?

Even within DeMoss’ statement he describes Mark Driscoll’s choice to damage hundreds, if not thousands, of people as “challenging circumstances”.  I think that suggests what is to come in the interview.  There’s no acknowledgement of the pain Driscoll has caused.  And as Donald Miller tweeted:

Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 09.33.19

It is fair to offer advance judgement when there is no acknowledgement of the broken, vulnerable and hurting.   It is fair to offer a chance for people to be heard.  There are ex-members of Mars Hill signing, like this person who says:

Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 09.37.12

Conveniently for a PR person, not offering “judgement” until after the event, allows Mark Driscoll’s career to be relaunched on one of the biggest Christian platforms in Europe.  And afterwards, the voice of (perhaps) the majority of people will be silenced by the swathe of media reports coming out of Hillsong, rewriting Mark Driscoll’s choices as “challenging circumstances” and his PR apology as Full Repentance.  And before I’m labelled as cynical, in advance of Mars Hill church being dissolved, Driscoll had already launched a new website, complete with opportunity to give to his ministry.

I will continue with the petition, and as I told Warren Throckmorton, am considering organising a peaceful protest at the Hillsong Conference because, when I finally have the opportunity to stand before Jesus and account for my actions, I can say that I stood with the broken and hurting and created space for their voices.  I did not walk by on the other side or as has been suggested, simply “vote with my feet”.

For another useful and important perspective, have a read of Jem Bloomfield’s blog: “The Punishment of Mark Driscoll”